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Analyse objective de la situation Haitienne: USA, Amerique L

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Analyse objective de la situation Haitienne: USA, Amerique L Empty Analyse objective de la situation Haitienne: USA, Amerique L

Message  Sasaye Ven 22 Juin 2007 - 1:57

The mission of AF Press is simple: to dig out nuggets of truth from the slag-heap of lies, ignorance and witless diversion that has buried public discourse today. AF Press provides a new venue for disseminating hard news and insightful, fact-based analysis of the harsh realities too often ignored or distorted by the mainstream press.



Haiti and Latin America: It is as it always was
Written by Kevin Pina
Monday, 18 June 2007
by Kevin Pina


Kevin Pina gives a swift accounting of recent history
in Haiti and the role of the Bush administration. He also gives an accounting of Latin American force serving under the UN banner and their motives for participating in yet another "Bush adventure."

Now that we have finally passed through the histrionics where the American public, by virtue of 9/11, gives the Bush
administration the benefit of the doubt in Iraq, it is perhaps time to re-examine its other dirty little war, in Haiti.
While the Bush administration made it clear it was willing to take unilateral military action against Iraq, it took an entirely different approach in 2004 to landing US marines in Haiti. The official version of events portrays unanimous international action undertaken to save Haiti from herself, but the reality was quite different and exposed a political breach in international opinion that fell mainly along racial lines.

The Bush Administration’s coup in Haiti, neatly sanctioned by the UN Security Council, gave the appearance of international unanimity while very little attention has been given to the dissenting voices. Those dissenting voices came primarily from other black nations in the Caribbean and Africa while the nations of Latin America, with the sole exception of Venezuela, either remained silent or gave their overt support to the operation. The reasons behind this have rarely been addressed and go far beyond the simplistic explanation of race solidarity. It can be argued this was a factor but CARICOM and the AU also made it clear that sanctioning the ouster of the democratically elected government of Aristide set a bad precedent that might ultimately come back to haunt them should they not come forward and condemn it. However, the same can be said for any nation in Latin America but again, it is a statement of fact that most nations in the Organization of American States and the Rio Group remained silent or gave their overt support to Aristide’s ouster.

The truth is that institutional racism has always affected Haiti’s relationship with the so-called ‘international community’, a term that is really shorthand for international action undertaken in the interests of the wealthiest and most developed nations. First among equals in this lexicon of international diplomacy and expediency remains the US government.

Since her inception, Haiti was treated as a pariah by an earlier historical formation of the ‘international community.’
Led by the US then as now, that version of ‘international community’ punished Haiti for winning her independence in 1804
as the world’s only successful slave revolution. The US and
its primary allies of the time were slave-holding nations whose economic development depended upon trade in human chattel. The US Senate of 1806 reflected this when they called Haiti, “The greatest threat to US interests at home and abroad.”

This declaration by the esteemed white gentlemen of the U.S. Senate actually displayed uncanny foresight as the example of Haiti ultimately would be cited by the likes of Denmark Vesey, Nat Turner, Gabriel Prosser and John Brown as inspiration for their like-minded slave revolts on U.S. territory. Haiti’s existence established an institutional fear in the halls of power in the U.S. that would lead to a crippling economic blockade of the country that lasted for more than half a century.

Compounding the effects of the US embargo, in 1825, France demanded that Haiti repay its former colonizer for the “property” of slave owners that France lost as a result of the Haitian revolution. This indemnity payment left Haiti with a staggering debt, which it was still repaying after the First World War. Haiti was not recognized by the US until 1862 when Frederic Douglas became the first US Ambassador to Haiti.
[Footnote: He actually resigned protesting “To them[US businessmen], the welfare of Haiti is nothing; the shedding of
human blood is nothing; the success of free institutions is nothing, and the ruin of neighboring country is nothing. They are sharks, pirates and Shylocks, greedy for money, no matter at what cost of life and misery to mankind.”

In the lead-up to Haiti’s bicentennial in 2004, Haiti’s President Jean-Bertrand Aristide demanded that France repay the sum the former slaveholders had wrested from Haiti in 1825--which he calculated amounted, with inflation and interest, to over 21 billion dollars. France responded with hostility, leading calls, which were joined by the US and Canadian governments, for Aristide to leave office.

In February 2004, these three governments supported a coup d’etat against Haiti’s elected government. The Bush administration and its allies justified the removal of Aristide as necessary. Aristide made it clear to the world that he was taken out of Haiti against his will. US marines showed up at his doorstep the very moment his government was about to receive a re-supply of weaponry and ammunition, provided by the government of South Africa at the request of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM). The timing of his physical removal and relocation to a former French colony in central Africa ensured that his government would never have the means to defend itself. This version of events has since been corroborated by former Haitian prime minister Yvon Neptune who later spent more than two years in a Haitian jail under the US-installed government that took power after Aristide’s ouster.

The response of the other fourteen nations of CARICOM was swift: they expelled Haiti from the organisation and refused to recognise the US-installed regime of Gerard Latortue. They were joined by the fifty-one member states of the African Union (AU) in refusing to extend diplomatic recognition and demanding an immediate and thorough investigation into the circumstances surrounding Aristide’s removal. The only Latin American nation to join them in this diplomatic action was Venezuela, the government of which was nearly decapitated in a similar Bush stratagem in 2002.



The US marines, Canadian Special Forces and the French Foreign Legion were on the ground even before the 29 February 2004 ouster of Aristide. Immediately following the coup, under a UN banner called the Multinational Interim Force (MIF), these foreign armies waged a lightning campaign to pacify the country. In the days that followed, the US marines, who controlled the capital, allowed paramilitary death squads who had invaded Haiti weeks previous from the Dominican Republic, to enter poor neighborhoods resisting Aristide’s ouster. The MIF had imposed dusk to dawn curfew that was not applied to these paramilitary forces that took advantage of their exception to indiscriminately strafe those neighborhoods with automatic weapons. The US marines launched a major military operation on 12 March 2004 against the poor neighborhood of Bel Air, whose residents had begun to demonstrate for Aristide’s return and against what they saw as another coup.
According to video interviews I took with survivors the next day, the blood ran so thick in the streets that fire trucks arrived to hose them down before dawn. These survivors also reported the corpses of those killed were placed into black body bags by US marines and hauled away for disposal. Having
lived in Haiti for five years prior to the coup, I was on the ground during this period. Most of the US marines I saw during this time were Caucasian, conjuring the collective memories of Haitians in poor neighborhoods of the capital of the US military invasion of their country in 1915.

On 1 June 2004, the MIF was replaced by a UN military operation. Combined, both military initiatives resulted in the murder, torture, rape and false imprisonment of thousands of Haitians.
The current UN operations, since they replaced the MIF, have been carried out under the command and leadership of the armies of Brazil, Argentina and Chile. Responsibility for command and control of the operation was given to the Brazilian commanders.

This raises a few very important questions. Why was it that $the bulk of international outcry and resistance to the ouster of Haiti’s constitutional government came from CARICOM and the AU? Why did regional Latin American organisations such as the Organization of American States (OAS) and the Rio Group (RG) support the Bush administration’s position justifying Aristide’s ouster? Was it merely a question of race solidarity and the fact that those nations opposing the Haiti intervention were African or descendants of African slaves?
The OAS and the RG would ultimately move beyond mere tacit support for Bush’s Haiti policy by agreeing to a US initiative in the United Nations for them to take the leadership of yet another military occupation of Haiti. The “others” would move to isolate the regime that replaced Aristide and demand an explanation of the circumstances of his removal from office.

Beyond the well-known machinations of the self-professed leaders of the free world in the North, Haiti has never been embraced as the symbol of freedom and liberty she can rightfully claim in Latin America. Eduardo Galeano, whom I deeply admire, best sums up the perception of Haiti in a famous poem: In the French Caribbean islands, history books present Napoleon as the most admirable warrior of the West. In these islands, Napoleon restored slavery in 1802. With fire and sword, he forced the free blacks back into slavery on the plantations. Of this, the texts make no mention. The blacks are Napoleon’s grandchildren.
We must believe Galeano knew that the great Haitian General Jean-Jacques Dessalines lined up French officers and urinated in their faces before sending them to the gallows! ‘Koupe tet! Boule Kay’ (cut off their heads and burn their houses) was his Kreyol battle cry and most Haitians today would identify more with that sentiment than any offers of returning to slavery.
The Haitians today are the children of Dessalines, not the grandchildren of Napoleon – he would have to run for his life to survive their ire. Also remember that Dessaline was not racist, his commander in charge of his artillery units was the defected white French officer Lieutenant Tesroit. Latin American brothers and sisters wanting to understand Haiti should be concerned with its history and context. The Haitian people earned their true spirit and reputation from Dessalines as a symbol of liberty and freedom in the world. Bolivar understood this after Haitians offered him arms and assistance to liberate Latin America from the yoke of Spanish colonialism.

The template for US repression in Latin America had been established in Haiti nearly fifteen years before the gringos kidnapped and assassinated Sandino in Nicaragua and hunted down Farabundo Marti in El Salvador. White US marines (usually speaking with a southern drawl) kidnapped and assassinated Haitian resistance leader Charlemagne Peralte and killed more than 10,000 Haitians before they preyed upon the rest of the region. Beginning in 1915, the US marines committed a scorched earth policy and massacres in Haiti meant to set an example for the rest of Latin America and the Caribbean in the decades that followed. We must never forget the common history Latin America shares with these former black slaves of Haiti.

Despite this history, the OAS and the RG would uncritically support the Bush administration in ousting Aristide in 2004 while CARICOM would lead a movement to isolate the US-installed regime that followed. What is undeniable is that most of CARICOM’s members are former slave colonies while most Latin American nations are not. However, there is more to the story than differences of race, historical origin and development.

What is rarely mentioned these days is that CARICOM had reached the end of its patience with the Bush administration in the months proceeding 29 February 2004. They had worked closely with the constitutional government in Haiti to give the so-called opposition something they could never earn at the ballot box, namely, power sharing.

Aristide’s government argued that the so-called opposition was really window dressing for an initiative largely funded by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA) and France, through the European Union (EU). They specifically pointed the finger at USAID and the Democracy Enhancement Project financed by the US government. The Aristide administration also gave evidence of the role of these countries’ embassies in supporting opposition demonstrations demanding the president’s resignation. Despite this evidence, CARICOM convinced Aristide to agree to a power sharing agreement that would give the opposition control of the prime minister’s office and all the positions of the cabinet. Again, this was a position of power in Haitian politics that the opposition, nurtured by foreign largesse against Aristide, could never have won at the ballot box.

The governments of the US, France and Canada worked behind the scenes to sabotage CARICOM’s initiatives. They succeeded in scuttling these efforts but it was clear that their surrogates could not sustain the momentum to force Aristide out.
Opposition demonstrations demanding Aristide’s resignation had dwindled to a few hundred raucous voices in the streets of the capital in early February 2004. A massive demonstration on 7 February, demanding Aristide fulfill his five-year mandate, swelled to several hundred thousand in the capital, dwarfing any previous opposition rallies by comparison.

A suivre.....
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Message  Sasaye Ven 22 Juin 2007 - 2:13

Suddenly, the door to compromise was closed forever as paramilitary forces attacked Haiti from the Dominican Republic. CARICOM diplomats and Haiti-watchers knew that these forces enjoyed the tacit and overt support of the US and Dominican militaries. It would have been impossible for these paramilitaries to use Dominican territory for their training camps and to procure the large weaponry they were using gainst the Haitian police without the consent of the US and Dominican authorities. An editorial in the Jamaica Gleaner on 4 March 2004 summed it up best:
It is curious that rather than placing pressure on the opposition to respect the tenets of democracy, Messrs. [Colin] Powell, [Dominique] de Villepin, and [Bill] Graham, quickly acquiesced. But worse, they turned the screws on Aristide.
Noticeably, too, the insurgency, led by former death-squad leaders and coup planners, erupted after Aristide declared – for the second time – that he would embrace the power-sharing agreement.

So, in the end, CARICOM expended a large investment of political capital to aid the constitutional government to broker a settlement with what was arguably a foreign-funded and foreign-backed opposition in Haiti. The fact that the triumvirate of the US, France and Canada never had any intention of allowing their Haitian surrogates to end the crisis was not lost on CARICOM. It was for this reason that they felt justified in expelling Haiti from the organisation and leading the effort to diplomatically isolate the US-installed government that followed.

President Thabo Mbeki of South Africa was closely watching events in Haiti throughout this period. He had his own experiences with the so-called opposition in Haiti when he attended the country’s bicentennial celebrations in January 2004. Mbeki clearly saw that the opposition forces were being led by Haiti’s economic elites, who owned most of the radio, television and print media in the country. He and his staff were aghast as they watched, heard and read the most outlandish statements and rumours broadcast and written about his visit. Mbeki was overheard, during an official state dinner, saying to one of his diplomats: ‘Opposition? These people can only be described as crazy and unreasonable.’

After the bloodthirsty paramilitaries crossed into Haiti from the Dominican Republic and began attacking police stations and taking over townships, CARICOM requested that the government of South Africa provide assistance to the Haitian police.

Mbeki responded by dispatching a cargo plane of weapons and ammunition to Haiti on 27 February 2004. At the very moment the plane was refueling in Kingston, Jamaica, US marines, led by CIA station chief Luis Moreno, entered Aristide’s residence and gave him an ultimatum. He could get on a plane to leave Haiti or they would clear the way for the paramilitaries to enter the capital. He was told the bloodletting would be on his hands and that he would most likely be killed.

President Aristide had already seen the writing on the wall. Two of the final telephone calls he reportedly made before Moreno showed up on his doorstep were to Jamaican President P. J. Patterson and President Mbeki. He told them that the Bush administration was urging him to resign and that the US embassy had made it plain that the South African shipment for the police would never be allowed to leave Jamaica. He also said his conversations with US representatives had included a veiled threat of violence.

As soon as it became clear that Aristide was being taken out, Patterson and Mbeki mobilised to ensure that CARICOM and the AU would speak with one clear voice and position. Whatever government the US used to replace Aristide would not receive diplomatic recognition from their member states and an investigation into the circumstances of Aristide’s ouster would be demanded.

The OAS was already bought off and predisposed to accept the Bush administration’s claim that Aristide had left Haiti of his own volition. The regional group had already allowed itself to rubber stamp an earlier smear campaign to taint the Aristide government’s reputation in 2000–2003, under the leadership and influence of US diplomatic hit-men like Otto Reich, Luigi Einaudi, Lino Gutierrez and Roger Noriega. The most scandalous example of this was the OAS laying the blame for an attempted coup on 17 December 2001 on the victim.
After a military assault-force failed to take over Haiti’s national palace, a frightened and angry population went on a rampage and attacked the opposition, who claimed that Aristide had orchestrated the whole affair. The OAS agreed and, adding insult to injury, forced the cash-strapped government of Haiti to pay reparations to the opposition. By any objective accounting of the evidence that has surfaced since, including public admissions by paramilitary commander Guy Philippe, the opposition was complicit in the attack. As recently as May 2007, Philippe has publicly confirmed long--held suspicions that leading opposition figures Evans Paul and Andre Apaid had provided funds and logistical support to his paramilitary organization. The so-called “peaceful” opposition to Aristide had actually worked in concert with the paramilitaries in the Dominican Republic to oust Aristide.

To better understand the role and position of the OAS we should never forget the amount of aid its member states and their respective militaries receive through Pentagon funding, via International Military Education and Training (IMET) and Foreign Military Financing (FMF). According to Frida Berrigan and Jonathan Wingo, writing for the World Policy Institute, military aid to Latin America has increased to $122 million, more than thirty-four times its year 2000 levels. Beyond military aid there is annual Foreign Aid and Assistance programmes of nearly a billion dollars. Add to this the thousands of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) funded
through the United States Agency for International Development
(USAID) who are involved in every facet of political, social and economic ‘development’ in the region. Certainly this lesson is not lost on President Chavez who is the latest object of US ire by actively pursuing a policy of using Venezuela’s petro-dollars to offset US influence in the region.

Now we find the armies of Brazil, Chile and Argentina leading a military force that occupies Haiti under the banner of the United Nations. Isn’t it miraculous how these three countries, with historically the most heinous records of human rights abuses in the western hemisphere, are transformed into ‘peacekeepers’ by virtue of a United Nations Security Council resolution, sponsored by the Bush administration? The truth is that a strong case can be made that historically these militaries have been more beholden to the Pentagon than to their own civilian leadership. Research how much money these militaries still receive in arms and training from the US and study their participation in the inter-regional military exercises called “Fuerzas Commando” led by the Pentagon to combat terrorism ttp://www.southcom.mil/AppsSC/pages/exOps.php).

The chain of command leads to the Southern Command of the Pentagon (USSOUTHCOM) not to Rio de Janeiro, Santiago, Buenos Aires or any other capital in the region.

Therein may lay one of the answers to why the nations of Latin America provided cover and troops for the Bush administration’s policy in Haiti. It helps to explain why a number of so-called Latin American progressive governments have provided troops to the UN occupation forces in Haiti.
They must appease their militaries and, by extension, the Pentagon or the same machine of destabilisation might be aimed against them. It is a reality all leaders of Latin America and the Caribbean have had to face since the Monroe Doctrine and very little has changed. There is also the added benefit of transferring the most reactionary troublemakers in their own militaries to Haiti instead of them remaining in their own countries where they might cause problems. For example, remember the historical roles of the Brazilian, Argentinean and Chilean armed forces remain highly controversial in their own countries to this day. Transferring them to UN “peacekeeping” operations in Haiti has been a convenient safety valve to temper internal debate over their previous undemocratic roles in their respective countries.

The Brazilian military has responsibility for leadership of the UN military forces in Haiti and they have been authorized to use deadly force. They are at the top of the command structure and their influence on the overall mission should not be understated. It is important to note that I have seen with my own eyes the differences between black soldiers and brown soldiers in the Brazilian military in Haiti. The upper echelon is almost exclusively lighter skin color while the darkest faces are almost always found among the soldiers on the street. A case can be made that what has been identified as racism in Brazilian society is mirrored in the composition of the high command of the Brazilian armed forces. Simply go to their website to see what I mean.

More importantly, there is a direct parallel between Brazilian military tactics utilized by UN forces in Haiti and similar military operations in their own country. These are the same commanders who also order Afro-Brazilian soldiers to open fire in the slums of Sao Paolo and Rio de Janeiro called favelas.
This was highlighted in an Amnesty International report “Brazil: 'They come in Shooting': Policing socially excluded communities” released on December 2, 2005. The report stated, “The violence was highlighted by an incident in March, in which 29 people were shot dead by a ‘death squad’ -- believed
to consist of members of Rio de Janeiro's military police force -- in the Baixada Fluminense District of the city; it was the worst massacre in the city's history, but not a new or
isolated phenomenon.”

It should be noted that the favelas in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paolo are around 70% black and the rich in all the main cities are predominantly light-skinned (in Haiti this racial divide is more pronounced). The same Amnesty report continued,
“When [military] police do intervene in favelas, it is often by mounting ‘invasions’ -- violent mass raids using no warrants or, on rare occasions, collective warrants that label the entire community as criminal. The majority of the victims of police violence are poor, black or mixed-race youths.”

These are the same tactics authorized by the Brazilian generals in Haiti. It has resulted in several high-profile massacres committed in the poor slum of Cite Soleil where protestors challenged the UN’s authority by continuing to launch massive demonstrations demanding the return of President Aristide. In each instance, the entire community was demonized by the UN and the elite-run Haitian press as being criminals and gangsters and/or collaborators of criminals and gangsters. While it is true that armed gangs operated in the neighborhood and a few claimed they were aligned with Aristide’s Lavalas movement, these military raids had a clear correlation to the ongoing demonstrations.

Cite Soleil was terrorized on July 6, 2005 when Brazilian commanders authorized a raid by UN forces with the stated aim of routing gangs in the area. (http://haitiaction.net/News/HIP/7_12_5.html).

For supporters of the ousted president, the raid was viewed as a preemptive strike by the UN to dampen the impact of protests on Aristide's birthday, planned to take place only nine days later on July 15. By the time UN guns stopped firing, countless unarmed civilians lay dead with the majority having been killed by a single high-powered rifle shot to the head.

December 16, 2006 saw another large demonstration for Aristide that began in Cite Soleil and only six days later Brazilian commanders would authorize a second deadly raid by UN forces that residents and human rights groups say resulted in the wholesale slaughter of innocent victims. (http://haitiaction.net/News/HIP/1_21_7/1_21_7.html).

The unspoken parallel of Brazil’s role in leading the UN’s military strategy in Haiti is the fact that terror tactics such as these have been their modus operandi in their own country.

Unfortunately, the governments of Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Bolivia and Uruguay, among many others, continue to pretend that they are acting in the best interests of the Haitian people as they dutifully fulfill Bush’s policy under the guise of a baby-blue banner. Can they really believe that their civilian leadership will have more control over their own militaries once they return home from Bush’s misadventures in Haiti?
When their troops finally do return home it is more likely these Latin American nations will find their military commanders even more dependent upon and partial to the dictates of USSOUTHCOM rather than less. US military commanders, even in UN peacekeeping operations in Haiti, remain at the top of the food chain.

Historically, the power of the US military has always trumped national dignity and sovereignty in Latin America and the Caribbbean. US foreign policymakers have traditionally relied upon local economic elites and the militaries they created and trained to serve as proxies for their interests in the region.
When that didn’t work, by virtue of popular resistance from the target population, the US military would then intervene directly. Haiti has been among the nations who have suffered the most at the hands of US policymakers in the region exactly because of their level of historical resistance to foreign domination. Today’s efforts at subjugating Haiti by US foreign policymakers may be under a different guise and under a different banner, but the goal remains the same as it ever was. Whether it was slaveholding nations, led by the US following Haitian independence, or Latin American “peacekeepers” sanctioned by a UN Security Council resolution, the goal remains to subjugate the independent will and resistance of Haiti’s poor majority, by force if necessary. It is a denigration of the memory of Haiti’s aid and assistance to the great Simon Bolivar that Latin American support for this project continues unabated and uncritisized.
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Message  piporiko Ven 22 Juin 2007 - 9:57

Sa ap fe men bouch anpil ti facist san koutya ,sou forum nan.

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Message  Sasaye Sam 23 Juin 2007 - 16:04

Mezanmi,
Mwen mande'm ki sa na p chèche sou fowom saa.

Gen yon seri de moun ki vini ak yon bann teori, yon bann infomasyon sou sak te rive lan peyi a pendan o mwen 50 ane ki sot pase ya. Ou mande si se vre ou si moun nan pap rakonte istwa pou soutni ajanda li.

Men kounyea, mwen jwen yon analyz tou nèf ki fèt pa yon jounalis ki te la pendan anpil bagay tap pase anvan e pendan kou deta 2004 la e ki dokimante yon paket ensidan lan peyi a.

Neg saa, Kevin Pina, pwouve li se yon zanmi pèp ayisyen an e li te kanpe ak yo pendan lap mete yon bann kakachat deyo.

Mwen paka konprann ke se Piporiko selman ki li rapo saa e ki reaji.

Mwen ta renmen we kisa nèg sou fowom nan panse.

Natirelman nou pa obije dako, men di sa n panse paske gen de fè ki vinn pote limyè sou bagay ke ankil nèg pat konnen oubyen konprann. Gen de pwen ki demanti sa anpil moun te konn ap di.

Jwèt sipoze zanmi Ayiti yo tap fè pou yo kraze peyi a.
Nou sonje Luigi Einaudi ki te fè yon kantite voyaj pou l vinn destabilize peyi a.
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Message  Joel Sam 23 Juin 2007 - 19:29

Sasaye ,

Se mwen ak San Malis ki t ap fè reminisans sou bagay ki te pase sa gen 50 lane.
Pou mwen menm ,sa pa enterese m fè pawòl sou Sit sa a,sa m di se sa m sonje ;e ki ajanda pou m ta chache avanse ?

Kant a pou atik KEVIN PINA A,mwen trè familye ak misye depi mwente konn tande rapò misye yo sou KPFK.
Misye se te korespondan chèn piblik ,ke non an echape pou kounye an e li te konn fè menm travay lan Nicaragua pandan gè kontra a.
Mwen konnen KEVIN PINA ,se nèg serye ,se pa moun ki ap voye monte ,an menm tan tou mwen trè familye ak misye e sa l di an nan atik lan.

An rezime ,pi fò nan nou konnen ke koudeta 2004 lan ,se te yon koudeta kòmandite ;nou konnen ke mesye ann Ayiti yo ki ekzekite koudeta a se yon bann mantè,ke yo tout te sou pewòl Etazini,Kanada ak La Frans.

Ou menm di ke KEVIN PINA objektif?
Mwen menm mwen pral pli lwen ,m ap di ke 95% de sa misye di yo sela verite ,paske misye te ap viv ann Ayiti ,li te konn ale nan katye popilè yo e kòm mmwen ka di l ankò,misye se yon nonm ke m ap swiv depi anviwon 20 an e misye pa jan m voye monte.

Epi kite m di w ankò mwen pa fè okenn pawòl pou okenn ajanda!

M ALE!

Ti -Degi

Kounye an mwen sonje ,misye se te korespondan chèn radyo ki rele RADIO PACIFICA a!
Familiarize n ak kevin Pina;sa w se yon entèvyou li te bay an 1995 apre premye koudeta a:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PszFUqUGB7k

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Message  Sasaye Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 4:24

Jowèl mon chè,

Mwen regrèt ou pran remak mwen an kom si se de wou mwen ta p pale.

NON, se pa de wou mwen tap pale.
Se pou moun li atik la, sa ki touche yo konnen de ki lès ke map pale.

Rezon ki fè m mete atik saa sou sit la se paske mwen wè yon seri de deklarasyon ke atik la rektifye. Mwen fè l konfyans paske Kevin fè rechèch e pi li mache al wè sak ap pase. Li pa lan politik:

Mèsi pou remak sou Kevin Pina ke ou fè yo. Mwen byen kontan e mwen dako avek ou sanpousan. Se yon neg ki respèkte e renmen Ayisyen ak tout Ayiti, mem jan ak John Maxwell.

Temwayaj ou yo inpotant paske talè ma p pwal li moun ki pral di se manti e ke gen moun ki tap peye Kevin poul fè rapo li yo.

Alos ke yo te mem arete msye lè la l pwan foto ak fè repotaj pandan yo tal arete Jera Janjis lan presbytè li pandan li tap bay ti malere nou yo manje.
Jij Peres Paul pat vle msye mete kakachat saa deyo. Men li fèl kanmem.

Mesye sa yo, Kevin ak John Maxwell te kapab montre jounalis Ayisyen kijan pou fè travay yo.
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Message  Joel Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 7:28

Wi Sasaye,

Ayisyen vin tèlman koronpi ke depi yon moun pran yon pozisyon ki mande kouray ,se peye yo te gentan peye moun lan.

Kevin Pina ,te sou plas lè polis LATORTUE an ak MINUSTAH t ap grennen bal sou manifestan yo ki te de bra balan.Misye te ka mouri jou sa a.
Lè fini lè mesye Bush yo t ap fè pwopagann pou jistifye sa k te pase ann Ayiti an ou te ka tande KEVIN PINA sou Radyo PACIFICA ou byen sou DEMOCRACY NOW ki difize pa preske 300 stasyon radyo,ap di yo ke yo manti tankou chen.
Mwen byen kontan tou ou mansyone yon nonm kou JOHN MAXWELL ki trete koudetayis Ayisyen yo ,ki vann konsyans yo bay pwisans enperyalis ,tankou vateryen ke yo ye an ;e misye konn enplike ke mesye sa yo fè Ras Nwa a wont.

Gade kijan klas dominant yo ap chache remete Lame Dayiti sou pye ,pou kontinye mare pye mas popilè yo;ou pa preske tande okenn jounalis ayisyen ki leve kanpe pou di bagay sa a pa p pase.
Se bagay pou fè moun dezespere sou avni peyi sa a!

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Message  revelation Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 13:41

Sasaye di:
Men kounyea, mwen jwen yon analyz tou nèf ki fèt pa yon jounalis ki te la pendan anpil bagay tap pase anvan e pendan kou deta 2004 la e ki dokimante yon paket ensidan lan peyi a. Mesye sa yo, Kevin ak John Maxwell te kapab montre jounalis Ayisyen kijan pou fè travay yo.
Kevin se yon journalist investigate e dokimante ke misye ye.
Li dokimante sak ke li we kap fet devan li yo.
Majorite journalist Ayisyen yo se repote.
Se repotaj key o fe. Yo di bagay yo le plisouvan jan yow el la san chache konnin ki yes ki fe li e pou kisa, e ki yes ki pedi ou benefisye de zak la.
Nou tout konnin deja sak rive journalist investigate nou yo kankou Jean Dominique, lindor etc...
Nou pa bezwen blan pou montre nou chache zo nan kalalou.
Nou konnin e viv danje ki nan sa. Jounalis etranje yo gen animite e proteksyon.
Ti jounalist pa nou yo sou yon terin difisil kote yo kap mouri pou dan griyen.
Sasaye di ke :
Li[Kevin Pena] pa lan politik
: Mwen pap fe komante sou sa.
Kevin said:
The Haitians today are the children of Dessalines, not the grandchildren of Napoleon – he would have to run for his life to survive their ire. Also remember that Dessaline was not racist, his commander in charge of his artillery units was the defected white French officer Lieutenant Tesroit.
Kevin please!! Wou gen le pran nou pou ti moun piti.
Dessaline te itilize Lietnan Tesroit pou sevi koz li e paske misye te konnin tire bel kout kanon.
Min yon neg kankou Dessalines kap preche @koupe tet boule kay@ tout blan se yon rasis. Rasis la gen blan e nwa ladan tou.

Kevin wrote:
Latin American brothers and sisters wanting to understand Haiti should be concerned with its history and context. The Haitian people earned their true spirit and reputation from Dessalines as a symbol of liberty and freedom in the world. Bolivar understood this after Haitians offered him arms and assistance to liberate Latin America from the yoke of Spanish colonialism.
If Latin American brothers and sisters as he said really wanted to understand Haiti, they should have told Danny Glover and Hugo Chavez that they selected the wrong hero, Toussaint to make a 18 million dollars' movie.
Kevin said:
What is undeniable is that most of CARICOM’s members are former slave colonies while most Latin American nations are not.
Could Kevin explain to us the origin and the suffering of our Afro brothers and sisters in Cuba, Honduras, Panama, and Dominican Republic, and all over Latin America these days?
They were not tourists from Africa; that’s for sure.
Linked is a documentary by the Miami Herald telling the true about Afro-Latino.

Enjoy dokimantasyon sa avan ke MiamiHerald retirel sou sit yo a.
Gen anpil bel bagay pou listwa ki di la. Anpil bel imaj e video. Nou kap konpran pou kisa Dominikin yo pa zan mi nou. Mete bagay sa yo sou CD e DVD pou nou sa sevi ak yo demain.

http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part1/index.html

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Message  Joel Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 14:26

Non Revelatyon,

Pa vin falsifye listwa,petèt ke kevin Pina pi okoran listwa Dayiti ke anpil nan nou ki leve ann Ayiti.

Gen anpil bagay FIC yo fè nou konprann ki pa koresponn ak reyalite.
Dessalines se te blan manjè de nèg yo ,li pa t vle wè.Mwen kwè sekretè misye an JUSTE CHANLATTE ,se te yon blan franse ,li te ye.
Ankò pa bliye blan Polonè yo ,ki te pase nan kan revolisyonè yo ,yo te an nonm ant 800 ak 1000;Dessalines te resevwa yo ak bra louvri.W ap jwenn desandans mesye sa yo nan zòn Kazal jounen jodi an.
Apre triyonf revolisyon an,Dessalines te bay mesye sa yo moso tè pou yo travay ,paske yo te dorijin peyizàn.
Epitou ,Dessalines sou plim JUSTE CHANLATTE ,te bay rezon poukisa li te fè masak blan franse yo.

Li te di espesifikman se te pou vanje de masak konjenè nou yo nan Gwadloup.Kòm ti moun ann Ayiti ,yo pa janm pale nou de masak sa a ,e se yon wont nasyonal.
Franse yo ,kòm mwen abitye di l deja ,te masakre plis ke mwatye popilasyon Gwadloup ,nwa ak milat (Aa wi) e blan franse yo pa t epanye pèsonn ;yo te touye timoun ,granmoun,gason ak fanm an 1802.

Franse yo te tèlman touye moun ,ke malgre ke blan angle te deklare an 1807 fen de la trèt ,ke franse yo ,yomenm te kèmanse la trèt pa yomenm ,pou repeple Gwadloup ak Matinik an 1808.

Lè nou te timoun ,yo te konn fè nou chante ,"Dessalines pa vle wè blan"
Se pa vre ditou,se te blan kriminèl yo ,li pa t vle wè.

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Message  Marc-Henry Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 15:03

Mwen soje ke yo di Dessaline pap vle wé blan mannan, en particulier. Kisa blan mannan vle di. se pe tet sesa Jowel fenk di la.
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Message  Joel Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 16:08

Espresyon blan mannan vini de espresyon franse an "blanc manant".
Menm jounen jodi an ,si yon blan ,se yon blan pòv ,yo rele l blan mannan.
Nan koloni an ,blan ki pa t propriyetè teryen yo ,blan ki ta p bat dlo pou fè bè yo,te genyen yo tou nan koloni an ,yo te rele yo blan mannan.
Se blan sa yo ki te pi reyaksyonè,pa egzanp yo pa t vle wè milat ak afranchi yo ,paske yo te wè mesye sa yo kòm konpetisyon, ou pa bezwen pale de esklav yo.

Ou te jwenn bagay sa a ,toupatou kote ki te gen esklavay.Pa egzanp nan Sid etazini an,lè yon esklav te achte libète l,sòt de blan sa yo te konn fòse l kite zòn lan pou l al viv nan Nò Etazini.

Non kòm mwen te deja di l ,Dessalines pa t vle wè yon seri de blan ,paske yo se te blan ,li pa t vle wè majorite nan yo ,pou sa yo te fè!

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Message  Marc-Henry Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 16:20

mèsi pou ti kou istwa sa
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Message  Rodlam Sans Malice Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 18:05

Men eske Simon Bolivar se te nwa?Kom genyen anpil moun di ke se Petion ki te ede Bolivar men mwen kwè ke Dessalines te ede swa Simon Bolivar ou Miranda tou.Yon moun pa ka mande yon moun pou li renmen yon gwoup moun ki mete l nan esklavaj sa se yon nonsans. pou m renmen yon moun fok li renmen mwen tou.Mwen pa kwè nan amou aveg.Apre sa ke franse yo te fè Toussaint Louverture sibi nanpren anyen ke dessalines te fè ki kondanab.se aktyon franse yo ki koze reyaktyon koupe tet boule kay la.

mwen pa dako ak Revelatyon lè li kondane Danny Glover ak Hugo Chavez pou film ke yo pral mete deyo sou la vi Toussaint Louverture ,mwen kwè ke tou de geyan sa yo genyen dwa a onè e respè tout nwa ki vle viv lib ou mouri.Fok nou konnen ki moun ki te komanse batay la tou petet si yo pat arete l ,kidnape l e byen petet pa ta genyen masak la.Franse yo te mete Dessalines do o mi,li pat genyen chwa: sete chase blan yo ou byen napoleon tap retabli esklavaj anko nan koloni ya.Genyen moun ki kondane strateji koupe tet boule kay la.men se la tout valè militè Dessalines ,lè ou genyen yon enmi ki genyen yon fos ke w pa ka egale se wou ki pou kreye taktik e strateji ki pi apwopriye e fom de lit ki pi ka bay resilta.Se konsa nou wè ke Dessalines se te yon guerillero anvan menm ke taktik sa te vinn an vog.

Se pa plede achete zam nan men fabrikan zam pou nou fè yo pi rich pandan ke nap manje biskwit labou ,se pa imite menm strikti militè ak enmi nou yo.se nou menm ki pou panse moyen nou e ki pou envante yon lot strikti ki pi apwopriye ak moyen e beswen nou.Se sak fè mwen renmen Dessalines konsa li se te yon moun de desisyon ki pat pè pran responsabilite li.
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Message  Joel Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 20:45

Mwen p ap long!

Dessalines pa t ka ize strateji Tousen an,menm si li te vle.
An 1802,Napoléon te pran yon lwa ki dike yon moun ,depi ou gen san nwa ,ou pa t ka sitwayen franse.

M ap kontinye repete l ,lè franse yo debake an Gwadloup nan menm ane 1802 an ,se te pou retabli lesklavay .
Pa t gen milat ,pa t gen nwa pou yo ;yo te masakre pi fò moun nan koloni e yo mete rès yo nan esklavay.Yon esklavay ki te pi terib ke sa ki te ekziste anvan an.

Mesye ann Ayiti yo ,(Sen Domeng) te aprann sa.
Alòs ki konsiderasyon ou ta ka pran lè w ap goumen ak de moun konsa?
Moun ki ap kondane taktik Dessalines yo ,se paske yo te pran nan lavaj sèvo ke FIC yo ,te fè nan sèvo nou tout.

Si zansèt yo te pèdi gè an ,yo tout ta p mouri;franse yo t ap touye yo tout!
Nan bagay sa a ki chwa Dessalines te genyen ,si se pa t yon gè total?

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Message  revelation Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 22:22

Rod di :
mwen pa dako ak Revelatyon lè li kondane Danny Glover ak Hugo Chavez pou film ke yo pral mete deyo sou la vi Toussaint Louverture ,mwen kwè ke tou de geyan sa yo genyen dwa a onè e respè tout nwa ki vle viv lib ou mouri.
Rod, Danny Glover se yon akte e Hugo Chavez se yon politisyen.
Akte jwe rol ke yo bali yo e ke yo peyel, politisyen reaksyone peye e fe akte jwe rol ke li vle.
Si wou analize sa mwen di la, wap we ke verite a lou kou pwa 50.
Mwen konnin Toussaint L’Ouverture ase byen konsa. Mwen we foto li nan plisye miseum nan peyi lot bo dlo.
Misye gen anpil foto li chita sou bel chwal arab, avek inifom pangnol, angle, e franse sou li. Nan foto yo misye gen bel iniform an swa lame souli avek bel epolet an or e anpil meday de komba ke li resevwa nan min 3 peyi sa yo, pangnol, angle, e franse.
Misye gen bel pantalon pete sere sou li.
Bel bot an kwi sire e zepon klere kou glass.
Ki yes ke Toussaint te ye??
Toussaint te vini yon sitwayen franse, e gouvene de lil de St Domingue ofisyelman nome par la France.
Se verite sa ke anpil nan nou Ayisyen pavle tande.
Se apre ke yon ti empere rasis kite rele Napoleon premye ki vini gate tout bagay nan peyi a ki deklare ke li pa rekomet neg nwa kom franse e gouvene lil de St. Domingue.
Malgre deklarasyon sa Toussaint te telman remin job gouvene sa ke li tap fe ti sousou deye Napoleon e tap ekri le premye des nwa o premye des blan.
Malgre sa, yo mete misye anba kod.
Menm apre sa, pitit misye e tout fanmi li pat jamb retounin an Haiti pou vini viv e kontinye konba avek nou.
Se an france ke yo te deside pran residense yo.
Le Lil de St. Domingue ke yo te rele La Perle des Antilles akoz de richess ekonomik te vini tombe telman ba ke pat gen perle anko ki te rete se @le lambi des Antilles @ke lite vinn tounin a koz de ekonomi lil la ki te vinn bese ba.
Bran franse te vle remonte ekonomi lil la e te vle remete esklav yo anba kod anko.

S te Dessalines ki te dike se radiyes sa.
Nou lib nou lib net e nonselman nou lib min fwa sa nap koupe kod lombrit nou avek la france.
Nap deklare tet nou indepandan.
Yon mo ki te bani nan vokabile ti neg.

Rod, pou m retounin sou zafe film sa ke Danny Glover ap fe a e Hugo Chavez ap finanse a, si wap fe yon referandum an Ayiti e wap mache mande tout Ayisyen sou te d’Ayiti e nan Diaspora, mande yo pou yo chwazi yon nan hero indepandans nou yo pou fe yon film pou la premye fwa.
San manti Rod, di’m ki premye hero ke pep Ayisyen tap chwazi e ki dezyenn hero ke wou sipoze key o tap chwazi???

Map bay w repons la konnyen la.

Toussaint popile nan lakou blan se vre, min lakay nou san manti se papa Dessalines e tonton Petion.
Si wou gade logo forum site la chak jou wap we verite a se potre 2 mesye sa yo ke wou we.

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Message  Rodlam Sans Malice Dim 24 Juin 2007 - 23:52

Revelatyon

Pa di sa mon chè, si w ale vertyè ou byen sou chan de mars.se pa foto Dessalines ak Petion selman wap wè;Dessalines ka pi popilè se vre men ou paka di ke Toussaint te telman renmen job gouvènmè ke li tap fè ti sousou nan pye napoleon lè li te ekri li let .Toussaint te ka konprann apre revolutyon franse ya te fet an 1789 la frans te pral aboli lesklavaj pase fok ou sonje ke se revolutyonè franse yo ki tap pale de liberté,egalite ,fraternite, alo si li te panse ke kokoloni ya ta ka rete yon depatman franse san esklavaj kote tout moun lib e egal e ke li ta pi bon konsa ou pa ka di li se ti sousou ,Chak mesye sa yo te wè bagay yo yon jan.E mwen dako tou ak Toussaint si st domingue te ka rete yon depatman franse san esklavaj e ke tout moun te lib kom sitoyen franse san gè pat beswen fet e byen bagay yo ta ka pi bon.Men se apre ke yo kidnape Toussaint ke Dessalines vinn wè ke franse pap janm ba nwa liberte ,egalite e fraternite ke yo te goumen pou li lakay yo.Liberte. egalite ,fraternite se te pou blan franse men li pat ni pou afranchi ni pou esklav yo nan koloni yo se sak fè Napoleon te deside pou l te retabli esklavaj nan koloni paske se sou komers sa ke ekonomi anpil peyi te base.

Zafè ke fanmi Toussaint pa retounnen viv an ayiti la ou pa konnen si se vle yo pat vle tounnen ou byen si se moyen yo pat genyen pou yo tounnen.ki jan fè pou yo te kite Toussaint nan prison epi pou yo retounen ,apre Toussaint finn mouri se pat fasil pou yo te retounnen nan peyi yo menm si yo te rete paske yo te vle rete ou pa ka kondane Toussaint pou sa.

Epi tou ou pa ka kritike yon film anvan ou wè li.Danny Glover pa yon moun ki pral jwe nenpot wol ke yon metè an senn ba li poul jwe.Se pa yon moun ki egare li ye.E Mwen pa kwè Presidan Chavez tou tap patrone yon film ki denigre Toussaint.Mwen pa konn deyè m lan men mwen te toujou konnen ke Toussaint Louverture se yon moun ke tout ayisyen admire ,mwen patikilyèman se yon nan ero nou yo ke mwen renmen ,mwen ka di san ezite mwen pi renmen li ke Ni Petion ,ni Christophe.Anko ka se yon kestyon de perseptyon jan nou konprann strateji Toussaint an.
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Message  Sasaye Lun 25 Juin 2007 - 15:59

Koumanman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Koumatiboulout !!!!!!!!
Gen de nèg ki anraje.

Revelasyon,

Mwen konnen ke gen anpil bagay ki pou ranvèse.
Anpil lide ke yo te mete lan tèt nou fèt pou ranplase e ke nou fèt pou panse ak pwop sèvèl nou.

Men an mem tan gen yon seri de bagay pou nou rekonèt e pou nou respèkte.

Youn nan moun ke nou dwe respèkte an premye se TOUSEN LOUVETI. Nou fet pou admire e venere katedral gason saa.
Se youn lan pi gwo ero lan istwa limanite tout entye e se premye e pi gran nèg lan istwa di mond. Jis kounye a.

Lè li te ekri di li se "premye dè nwa", se pat sousou, se te yon deklarasyon ke li se gran nèg mem jan Napoleon te konprann li se gran blan. Franse yo te konsidere deklarasyon saa kom yon outraj ak yon arogans. Li te montre Napoleon li pat lan jwet, pa ranse ak li.

Yo pat ba l job gouvènè St Domeng, se fos militè l et politik li ki fè Franse yo oblije aksepte l kom nèg lan pos saa.
Pat gen lot moun ki ta kapab vinn pran pos saa la men l.

Pat gen photo epok saa.
Sa ou wè yo se te penti atis te fè de gran neg saa.
Se te yon gwo enspirasyon e inifom yo se sa tout general erop te mete. E se sèl neg epok saa ki te jeneral.

Si ou pa respekte nèg saa, ou pa ka respèkte pèsonn e anyen.
Pa bliye se mank respè saa ki fè sosyete tout kote ap degrade.

Desalinn pat popilè pendan preske mwatye istwa Dayiti. Paske Petion ki te premye GNBis te bani Desalinn le yo finn touye l lan Ponrouj: Si yon moun te nonmen non Desalinn pendan tout rey Petion ak Boye, ou tap pran prison e ou ta ka mouri.

Sa fe karant lane. Se apre Rivye Era vinn presidan ke bagay saa sisspan e yo rekomanse rebati imaj fondatè peyi a.
Ayisyen anraje depi lontan wi !!!

Lè Meriken vinn fè kadejak sou Ayiti, mem bagay la rekomanse e tout gouvenmen milat ki te la lè saa tap ponpe Petion.

Donk zafe nèg, milat ak afranchi a te la depi tout tan e li la toujou, jiskaske nou chanje mantalite nou.
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Message  revelation Lun 25 Juin 2007 - 22:53

Rod di ke:
Dessalines ka pi popilè se vre.....ke Toussaint Louverture. mwen ka di san ezite mwen pi renmen li ke Ni Petion ,ni Christophe.
Rod mwen dako avek wou sou koze sa 50%.
Lot 50% map pataje li avek Petion pou neg ki mete premye repiblik nwa sou la te, ak Christophe ki te bati pi gwo bilding nan karayb la Citadelle.
Rod di :
E mwen dako tou ak Toussaint si st domingue te ka rete yon depatman franse san esklavaj e ke tout moun te lib kom sitoyen franse san gè pat beswen fet [u]e byen bagay yo ta ka pi bon.
Se posib ke bagay yo te kab pi bon Rod, e gen anpil moun ki pataje panse sa avek wou Rod.
Min gen anpil lot Ayisyen ki kap manje wou ak yon grenn sel pou remak sa.
Se opinyon wou e fok yo respekte li.
Anpil istoryen panse ke indepandans Ayiti te inevitab. Libete nou pat reel jan yo te vle fe nou wel la.
Fok nou te pran indepandans nou de la frans pou nou te sa lib tout bon vre. Sete destine nou pou nou te bay egsanp nan zonn nan e soufle van libete e indepandans nan Lamerik Latine nan. Se byen domaj ke anpil lot ti peyi bouche zorey yo pou yo pa tande van libete sa ki tap soufle a.
Sasaye di :
Yo pat ba l [Toussaint] job gouvènè St Domeng, [u]se fos militè l et politik li ki fè Franse yo oblije aksepte l kom nèg lan pos saa. Pat gen lot moun ki ta kapab vinn pran pos saa la men l.
Sapap etone mwen ke nan 200 zan yon lot ti Sasaye ap di ke Michelle Jean te vini Governe Kanada sou fos pouyet li, politik li e bel famm li ki fe ke Kanada oblije aksepte l kom famm nan pos saa. Pat gen lot famm ki te kap vinn pran pos saa la nan men li.
Sasaye, mwen pa dako avek yon sou remak sa.
Se nome ke govenman la Frans te nome Toussaint governe a vi lil St. Domingue.
Santhonax avek tout govenman offisyel yo te bay Toussaint dwa e pouvwa pou negosye avek lot peyi o non de la frans.
Dokiman nan bibliotek erop e libreri kongre isit nan Washington, DC montre konrespondans ke li te fe avek Prezidan ameriken John Adams.
Li okipe pozisyon sa pandan plizye ane e li tap fe yon bon travay e tout moun blan, kou nwa e milat te respekte li jiskas ke rasis ke yo rele Napoleon vinn gate sitiasyon an.

Anpil moun konnin ke Ayisyen te ede Ameriken pran indepandans yo nan min blan angle nan batay Savanah, Georgia,
min yo pap jam di ke se Ameriken ki te ede Ayisyen pran indepandans yo anba la frans.
Istwa montre ke Ameriken te voye anpil zamm bay Ayisyen yo pou konbat blan franse amee Napoleon yo ki tap fe ravaj an Erop e ki te vle itilize Ayiti kom baz pou konkeri Ameriken yo ki te fek fini batay anba blan angle yo pou pran indepandans yo.

Fok nou analize e di bagay yo jan listwa di li.
Tout chef deta gen ti secret yo avek lennemi yo ke nou menm nou pa konnin. Pa gen anyen de sa si w se zanmi enemi 'm.
W kap toujou ede m demin konbat prop zanmi w.
Se konsa ke jwet politik jwe depi lontan jiska no jou.

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Message  Rodlam Sans Malice Lun 25 Juin 2007 - 23:19

revelatyon

Ou di ke Istwa montre ke ameriken te voye anpil zam bay ayisyen yo pou konbat blan franse ,ame Napoleon.mwen pap di se manti; men mwen pa janm li sa nan oken liv istoryen ayisyen yo ekri.Fok ou ta site non liv la e istoryen ki ekri li.

Sim raple m byen : se angle yo ki te ede Christophe nan yon moman difisil .mwen pa konprann ki jan fè ameriken yo te ede nou epi yon pat vle rekonet endepandans nou o pwen ke genyen yon presidan ameriken mwen bliye non li ki di ke revolityon ayisyen an se yon move ekzanp.Mwen ta renmen ke w klarifye posityon opose saa pou nou.
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Message  Sasaye Mar 26 Juin 2007 - 0:50

Revelasyon,

Ou pakapab konpare Ka Tousen Louveti a avek ka Michaelle Jean.

Tousen te gouvènè St Domeng ak tout pouvwa, Li te ka fè e defèt.

Gouvènè Canada se yon pos ki pa gen pouvwa politik, se yon pos seremonial.

Lè m di franse oblije aksepte Tousen kom jeneral en chef, yo kitel okipe plas gouvènè a ak plen pouvwa, paske li te inkontounab.
Yo te rekonèt pouvwa l, se pa renmen yo te renmen l ni chwazi yo te chwazil.

Se mem jan li te janbe bo panyol e bo angle tou.
Se pa job li tal chèche, li te pran pozisyon sa yo ak fos kouraj li.

Sèl jan yo te kapab kinbe misye se lan pièj ak trayison, sinon li tap devore yo.

Se pa Napoleon sèlman ki te rasis, tout sistem kolonial la te baze sou atitid rasis tout blan franse. Mem atitid saa vinn transmèt bay milat e sak konprann yo se milat, jiskounyea.

Banou plis losyè lan kose meriken te ede Ayiti pran endepandans li ya. Jiska prèv di kontrè, mwen di w se pa posib.
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Message  Joel Mar 26 Juin 2007 - 8:17

Se foli ,pou yon moun ta konprann ke Etazini ta ede Ayiti pran endepandans li.
Talleyrand ,ki te minis zafè etranjè Napoleon an ,te ekri Thomas Jefferson pou mande Etazini ede l izole Ayiti .

Si nenpòt moun fè yon ti rechèch ,li ka jwenn lèt lan sou Entènèt.
Jefferson te obsede pa Endepandans Ayiti an;misye te konn repete ke avèk endepandans Ayiti an,Etazini ki te yon sosyete ki chita sou lesklavay ,te layite l sou yon barik poud.
Sa k fè Etazini pa t atake Ayiti ,pou lremete lesklavay ,se paske a lepòk yo pa t gen fòs pou sa ;si yo ta fè l,nou t ap pyese yo!

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Message  revelation Mar 26 Juin 2007 - 11:54

While serving as a house servant and coachman, Toussaint received the tutelage that helped him become one of the few literate black revolutionary leaders.
After arranging for his family to flee from the city of Santo Domingo, Toussaint pledged his support to France.
Quot sa se sous US libreri Kongre.
Sasaye di:
Ou pakapab konpare Ka Tousen Louveti a avek ka Michaelle Jean. Tousen te gouvènè St Domeng ak tout pouvwa, Li te ka fè e defèt. Gouvènè Canada se yon pos ki pa gen pouvwa politik, se yon pos seremonial.
Sa wou pa kontinye di Sasaye se ke Toussaint e Michelle Jean ap viv nan 2 epoq diferan.
Yon epoq pouvwa gwo pouyet e yon epoq pouvwa pawol dous.
Tou le 2 gen pouvwa e itilize yo dapre siconstans e epoq la.
Jan w di sa w fe moun konprand ke Michelle Jean se nan lanteman e inoguirasyon chef deta selman ke lale.
Fok nou soulinye ke:
Seremonial ou pa, min gen ti desisyon politik ki fet ke mamzel bay opinyon tou.
Mamzel pa yon Condelizza Rice, ni yon Golda Meier, ni yon Magaret Thacher se vre, min li pa yon poupe touwel jan ou fe sa paret la.
Sasaye di :
Lè m di franse oblije aksepte Tousen kom jeneral en chef, yo kitel okipe plas gouvènè a ak plen pouvwa, paske li te inkontounab. Yo te rekonèt pouvwa l, se pa renmen yo te renmen l ni chwazi yo te chwazil.
Sasaye, nan politik pa gen renmen ladan! Se pa yon jwet lanmou, ni lonje dwet pou chwazi.

Toussaint te gen yon resume byen long,
Lite sel general nwa nan lame panyol, angle e franse.
Lite konnin li e ekri pase anpil ti solda blan e milat.
Le jeu fos a koupe, delegasyon govenman franse a la tet li Santhonax, pat gen lot chwa ke Toussaint.
Pa gen mannigett. Rayi chyen, min gen kouraj di ke dan li blan.
Sasaye mwen fyerr kom neg Ayisyen e respekte Toussaint.
Gen anpil lot neg nwa nan Washington DC ki gen karakte Toussaint, min malerezman mwen pakab bay non yo.
Sim fe sa anpil nan nou pral di ke mesye sa yo se Oncle Tom, house nigger, ass kisser etc.. Pito ke mwen rete la.
Min rezime Toussaint:
In March 1796, Toussaint rescued the French commander, General Etienne-Maynard Laveaux, from a mulatto-led effort to depose him as the primary colonial authority. To express his gratitude, Laveaux appointed Toussaint lieutenant governor of Saint-Domingue
.
A new group of French commissioners appointed Toussaint commander in chief of all French forces on the island.

A constitution, approved in 1801 by the then still-extant Colonial Assembly, granted Toussaint, as Governor-general-for-life, all effective power as well as the privilege of choosing his successor. Source: US Library of Congress.
Sasaye di:
Banou plis losyè lan kose meriken te ede Ayiti pran endepandans li ya. Jiska prèv di kontrè, mwen di w se pa posib.
Joel di :
Se foli ,pou yon moun ta konprann ke Etazini ta ede Ayiti pran endepandans li.

Rod di :
Ou di ke Istwa montre ke ameriken te voye anpil zam bay ayisyen yo pou konbat blan franse ,ame Napoleon.mwen pap di se manti; men mwen pa janm li sa nan oken liv istoryen ayisyen yo ekri.Fok ou ta site non liv la e istoryen ki ekri li. Sim raple m byen : se angle yo ki te ede Christophe nan yon moman difisil .mwen pa konprann ki jan fè ameriken yo te ede nou epi yon pat vle rekonet endepandans nou o pwen ke genyen yon presidan ameriken mwen bliye non li ki di ke revolityon ayisyen an se yon move ekzanp.Mwen ta renmen ke w klarifye posityon opose saa pou nou
.
Mesyeu Sasaye, Joel e Rod, Istoryen Ayisyen yo pat gen mwayen voyaje pou al fe rechech nan libreri, ni al nan jounal lot bo dlo , ni pran sabbatical leave of absans, ni gen grant ak sipo sponsorship pou fe rechech sou listwa peyi nou. Se ti bagay a dwat e a goch ke yo fe. Min rechech yo pat vreman serye e se pat fot yo.

mwen sezi tou le mwen we dokiman sa yo ki montre ke John Adams te ede Toussaint, e blan angle te ede Christophe malgre ke yo gennyen esklav lakay yo tou.
Anpil lot prezidan ameriken pat remin we Ayiti kom yon peyi esklav indepandan paske se yon move infliyans sou esklav lakay yo tou.
Min desisyon sa se yon desisyon ekonomik plis ke politik.
Gran plante esklavajis yo pata remin we ekonomi ameriken tonbe. Le Sid de zeta zini te viv de esklavaj, plantation koton etc.
Joel, Ameriken pat anvayi Ayiti le saa se paske pat gen nesesite pou sa.
Ayiti pat yon danje o poin de vi politik pou ameriken yo.
Min jan Sasaye di a intrigue internasyonal la tap fe presyon sou nou depi ke nou soti nan Guinin jiskaske nou rive sou te d’Ayiti, …e lap kontinye toujou.

. Foreign intrigue and manipulation prevailed on both sides of the conflict. Toussaint, in correspondence with United States president John Adams, pledged that in exchange for support he would deny the French the use of Saint-Domingue as a base for operations in North America. Adams, the leader of an independent, but still insecure, nation, found the arrangement desirable and dispatched arms and ships that greatly aided black forces in what is sometimes referred to as the War of the Castes. In April of 1803, Bonaparte signed a treaty that allowed the purchase of Louisiana by the United States and ended French ambitions in the Western Hemisphere. Source: US Library of Congress.
Sasaye di:
Sèl jan yo te kapab kinbe misye se lan pièj ak trayison, sinon li tap devore yo.
Toussaint we ke bagay yo grav le sa avek tout solda franse sa yo. Li bay demisyon li e mande pou pran retret li. Malgre sa yo kidnape li e yo voye li al kanpe lot bo dlo.
Recognizing his weak position, Toussaint surrendered to Leclerc on May 5, 1802. The French assured Toussaint that he would be allowed to retire quietly, but a month later, they seized him and transported him to France, where he died of neglect in the frigid dungeon of Fort de Joux in the Jura Mountains on April 7, 1803.
Source: US Library of Congress.
Se le sa ban deye jazz revolisyon an,lot lietnan yo kankou Dessalines, Petion, Boyer etc.. di ke sa pap rive yo.
Fok yo vide bon bass ak bon zamm kraze zo sou franse yo.

Mon che Sasaye mwen gen inpresyon ke listwa se repet.
Sak pase Toussaint la sanble yon cabonn copi, yon diplikata de saki te rive yon kamarad chef deta nou an Fevrye 2004.
E menm kamarad la di ke se kidnap eke yo te kidnape li. Malerezman ban deye jazz Lava.. pat gen neg kankou Dessalines ak Petion pou te pran la relev.
Yo pat pare pou jwe yon wol lidership e kanpe jazz Lav..pou kanaval eleksyion an.
Se lot mizisyen deyo ke yo kole ko yo avek yo e bayo pote labanye jazz Lava.. la.
Sa pat fet pou te fini konsa.

Dan listwa kote ke verite a kanpe, nou pa wel.
Bagay ki ekri an angle yo se Source: US Library of Congress.

Mwen fe yon ti kanpe la.
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Message  Sasaye Mar 26 Juin 2007 - 13:02

Pope twèl????
Non monchè, Michaelle Jean se yon fanm total kapital.
Se youn lan moun e fanm ke mwen pi admire.
Mwen ta bay souf mwen pou fanm saa.

Li sove la fas nasyon ayisyènn e ras nwa, lan tan ke nap viv kounyea.

Men se pa yon kestyon de epoq ni de gwo ponyèt, se dapre konstitisyon Kanada ke gouvènè peyi saa, se reprezantan chef deta ki la rènn Angletè.

Kanada pa gen prezidan, se yon demokrasi palmantè yo ye e chef gouvènman an se premye minis la.

Men yo fè pati de kouronn Angletè.
Donk tout seremoni ke Elizabeth ranpli an Angletè, Michaelle ranpli yo o Kanada.

Mem jan Elizabeth paka ni nonmen ni revoke pèsonn, Michaelle pakapab nonplis. Men se moun ke yo respekte pou posizyon yo e yo gen opinyon yo.

Se pa mem bagay ak yon gouvènè eta ameriken ki pi chef deta e gen plis pouvwa ke gouvènè Kanada.

Relasyon Tousen ak John Adams lan se te jwèt politik ki tap fèt. Pat gen batay endepandans lè saa.
Mwen pa konn konbyen zam yo te ka voye bay Tousen, men se pat pou Ayiti pran endepandans li.
Se pat pou endepandans Tousen tap goumen.

Jiskounyea a, malgre ou vinn dako avè m sou plisyè pwen, ou toujou ap denigre Tousen.

Tousen pat ni Oncle Tom, ni house nigger, ni ass kisser.
Donk nèg wap pale yo paka gen karaktè Tousen !!!
Al li "Les Jacobins noirs".

Fè atensyon sa istoryen ou byen ekriven meriken ekri sou Ayiti. Opinyon youn moun baze sou pèsepsyon milye kote ou ap evolye.

Mem jan jodya yon jounalis ou ekriven meriken pakapab eki sou Ayiti san yo pa di se peyi ki pi pov lan emisfè oksidantal. Yo toujou mansyone sa, mem si se pa de ekonomi yap pale.

Youn lan pi gwo choc mwen pran lè m rive o Zetazini kom jen gason, se lè m li lan yon ansyklopedi ke "Ayisyen se yon ras enferyè e ke brenn nou pi piti pase pa lot nèg". Alos ke mwen vini ak tout fyète ke istwa peyi m ak zansèt mwen te mete lan tèt mwen.
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Message  Joel Mar 26 Juin 2007 - 19:04

Non Revelatyon!

Etazini pa t ka anvayi Ayiti nan epòk sa a ;paske yo pa ta ka fèl.
Premyèman ,yo pa t ka pwojte pòwè e lè yo ta rive ann Ayiti yo t ap jwenn yon lame,yon peyi ak solda byen antrene ,veteran e sa k pi rèd lan ,yo pa t gen pli gwo zam ke Ayisyen nan epòk lan.
Si yo ta fè radiyès lan ,Ayiti t ap aneyanti yo.
Ayiti te tèlman gen zam ,ou wè ke lòt moun ki te vle fè mouvman revolisyonè nan zòn lan ,se ann Ayiti yo te vin pran èd militè.
Apre defèt yo te pran an 1803 a,franse yo te kite pi fò zam yo.
Pa bliye tou ,Etazini te ankò sou menas Angle yo.Pa bliye la gè 1812 lan ,lè Angle yo te boule Washington DC ra pye tè.

Ou gen epizòd DENMARK VESEY an tou.Denmark Vesey t ap prepare yon soulèvman Jeneral esklav yo nan zòn CHARLOTTE (Karolin di Sid).
Yon fason pou l te gen kredibilite bay esklav ke li te vle pèswade yo ,lli te di yo ke li te gen korespondans ak prezidan BOYER ke li di t ap voye bato nan rad CHARLOTTE lan pou bay yo apwi.
Bagay sa a te fè blan nan zòn Sid lan tranble.
Eske VESEY te gen korespondans ak Boyer vre ,nou pa konnen.
Nan yon liv ke m te li sa gen yon trantèn lane konsa "DENMARK VESEY REVOLT",otè an di,ke si se pa t la vèy ,yon "house nigger" t al vann bagay la ,nou te ka genyen yon istwa Etazini ki konplètman diferan de sa nou genyen an.

Wi ,John Adams ,te konn fè kòmès ak Ayiti,men ayiti pa t endepandan;e tou se pou nou di l de moun kou John Adams ak Alexander Hamilton pa t panse menm jan ak de moun tankou JEFFERSON,MONROE menm WASHINGTON ki te Sidis.
Hamilton ki se te rival ideyolojik Jefferson te menm ap pale de aboli lesklavay e Hamilton ki te fòme Depatman Trezò an ,te genyen moun nwa nan staf li.
Moun tankou Adams ,Hamilton ki se te nòdis t ap pale menm de sesesyon de rèS Etazini an ,si yo pa t vle aboli esklavay.
Devenn ,kòm ou ka konnen ,HAMILTON te mouri an 1804 nan yon dyèl.
Se de bagay ki chanje istwa Etazini an!

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Message  Rodlam Sans Malice Mar 26 Juin 2007 - 20:40

Mwen byen kontan li sa ke nou ekri yo.Si yon moun konprann byen sitatyon Revelatyon yo ou ka di ke Toussaint Louverture se te yon house nigger ki te vinn demisyione paske li wè bagay yo te enkontrolab.Men eske se vre?Sa pa ka etonne nou ke istoryen meriken ekri yon bagay konsa sou Toussaint.yo pap janm ba li kredi pou entelijans li pou li te pran grad sa yo nan tout lame ke li te pase yo de fason pou l te vinn genyen eksperyans e pouvwa poul te libere frè ak sè li yo.Yon bon taktisyen se pa yon moun fouge ki pa reflechi non; se yon moun ki konnen ki lè pou li frape e ki lè li genyen plis chans pou li reyisi.Sa pa etone m ke Toussaint te gen yen korespondans ak John Adams paske se te plan li divise lenmi neg yo pou li te ka afebli yo.Tou sa montre ke li se te yon bon statej militè.Ki jan pou yon blan rasis ta rann omaj a entelijans Toussaint?

maten yan pou m touye tan mwen map li yon atik nan Reader's Digest ;tit atik la se :"World's most dangerous leaders."Ki moun yo montre ki pi danjere nan mond lan se President Chavez, Kim Jong il ,Bashar Al-Assad e Mahmoud Ahmadine Jad.Depi mwen piti mwen te toujou renmen li Reader's Digest men atik saa fè mwen pran deseptyon paske yon moun ki pap viv nan epok saa ki ap li atik saa petet 50 lane apre pap konnen konteks ki fè otè saa ki se Dale Van Atta denigre mesye sa yo konsa.Sa ki pi dwol la tout zam ke otè ya dekri ke neg sa yo genyen ou byen ap chache genyen Geroges Bush , Tony Blair, Jacques Chirac ,Vladimir Putin genyen tout an pi gran kantite ke 4 neg sayo,atik la di ke :"Chavez spreads cah and discounted oil around in a bid to undermine America's influence.Eske se pa sa tou ke gouvernman meriken te fè tou pou yo te ka anpeche ke kominis yo pran pouvwa pou yo te ka sabote enfliyans Castro ak Sovyet union. poukisa lè se yon ki fel li bon epi le yon lot fè li li pa bon.Ki dwa leternel te bay ki di se yon sel kalite moun ki genyen dwa genyen zam fann fwa lakay yo?Chinwa yo ki ap ede anpil lot peyi eske se pa pouvwa yo yap etann tou , eta zuni ki ap ede lot peyi yo eske se pou bel zye moun yo ke yo ap fè.Mwen pan ko janm tande chavez anvayi oken lot peyi .ni bonbade oken lot peyi o kontrè mwen tande se ede lap ede peyi pov yo ak lajan lwil la.ki jan fè li se yon moun danjere ?Danjere pou ki moun ?

Mwen site teks saa pou yon moun konprann se pa tout bagay ou li pou pran yo pou yon verite.fok ou konnen nan ki konteks ke moun ki ekri bagay sa yo ekri li e ki bi li genyen.
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